CCCWC August competition voters’ comments

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A clue to CRUMBS.
206 comments were received for this competition (from 14 competitors, 2 others)
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Comments on the competition
1.
Where the clue word is clued as an exclamation, e.g. "My", I feel there should be an exclamation mark in the clue as well. I don't know if this is a matter of convention or just personal taste. Equal first place 28 39 and 40 with 4 points each. Runners up 13 26 and 47 with 1 point each.
2.
The most popular choice of single definition this month expressed surprise (22 of the 59), with clue 39 being the most noteworthy. Small pieces came a close second (20), with 10 of these being specific to bread or other food (9, 17, 24, 33, 43, 48, 49, 50, 54 and 56). A further 7 defined worthless people (4, 15, 16, 22, 28, 38 and 58), 2 remains (5 and 18) and just one clue a pittance (52). Seven clues included a double definition (8, 11, 26, 31, 32, 44 and 45) with just one failing to ensure that different senses of the word were defined. There was a good variety of wordplay techniques in the 52 single definition clues, though two of these seemed to lack any proper wordplay altogether (37 and 48). 15 clues' wordplay comprised anagrams, with 5 of these compounded (17, 36, 43, 53 and 59), including one ingenious &lit. SCRUM + B was the most popular theme (1, 6, 12 and 19), with another two featuring RUM (33 and 58) and a couple of CLUBROOMS lacking facilities ! (36 and 53). The container clue was very popular this month (17 in total) with RUM perhaps predictably being the commonest contents (5, 6, 12, 23, 29, 30, 40, 49, 50, 54, 55* and 57). Just three clues offered an acrostic this month (7, 25 (reversed) and 51, upon which note thanks again to the CWC for another great CWC, whose Clues Regularly Uplift Many Budding Setters !

Comments on the clues

1. A cry of dismay as scrum collapses upon ball's introduction

1.	The anagram seems to be around 'b' rather than 'upon' it.
2.	I like the idea but it is rather wordy with the A and 'upon introduction'
3.	good surface
4.	Lovely surface but AS has a different meaning in the wordplay which I think needs COLLAPSED not COLLAPSES; also UPON should be AROUND
5.	don't really like 'upon' – looks as if the 'b' needs to be at the bottom / end of word. 'With' might have been better
6.	I can't see how the container works assuming 'introduction' is for the B of ball's

2. A superior vineyard on Mont Blanc's south-western edges? Ça alors!

1.	The punstuation doesn't quite work for MBS.
2.	The French is too obscure for my taste
3.	MBS more accurately: Mont Blanc's western edges south

3. American network adopting strange expression of surprise

1.	Not sure what the surface means.
2.	How does a network adopt an expression of surprise?
3.	sound clue but surface doesn't grip

4. American telly has strange, worthless characters

1.	Perhaps 'American telly channel' would be fairer ?
2.	'has' imprecise for 'surrounds'; surface doesn't grip
3.	Could have chosen a better wotd than 'has' to suggest internal containment

5. Baby lions consuming first of red meat remains.

1.	Wordplay requires 'firsts' with an indication that they are separated, eg 'consuming separately firsts of…'
2.	The phrasing of the surface reading is a bit clumsy
3.	should be 'firsts of'
4.	Maybe should indicate that those letters don't actually get juxtaposed when consumed
5.	'First of red meat' can only pick R and nothing more.
6.	Nice idea, I think the wordplay would need to read 'firsts of red and meat' to work though

6. Barbarians' number one involved in wheeling scrummage? Good grief!

1.	Scrummage = scrum seems clumsy, might be better with 'wheeling scrum'.
2.	I like the wordplay but the definition is merely a convenient add-on to the surface
3.	Indicating SCRUM by SCRUMMAGE is a bit too obvious.
4.	Why say 'scrummage' when the wordplay requires 'scrum'?

7. "Bits and Pieces", song by Meatloaf unveiling recent come back

1.	'Pieces' is too vague for 'initials (of)'.
2.	wordplay (i.e. the real clue) doesn't make sense. Should be Bits and Pieces of by Meatloaf unveiling recent come back.
3.	"comeback" is one word – splitting it up for the sake of the wordplay isn't valid.
4.	Bits? … maybe needs to be 'pieces of'
5.	I liked the use of come before back.
6.	I think 'Pieces of…' is better to indicate initial letters. The punctuation breaks the wordplay here.

8. Bits n' pieces (6)

1.	Should be 'n', definitions should be of different meanings.
2.	Would be a lovely surface for a double def. – but how is the solver to KNOW that (s)he has the correct answer?
3.	Two practically synonymous definitions but no wordplay make this much too vague.
4.	Once again – these are the SAME definition, NOT 2 definitions
5.	:(
6.	This is only one definition!

9. Bits of masters' bread eaten by curs after tumbling?

1.	Perhaps 'first bits' would be fairer wordplay.
2.	Clever. The & lit. def. depends on the solver knowing this (excuse me) rather obscure reference, arguably a weakness.

10. Broadcaster keeps odd bits

1.	Not sure what the surface means (see54).
2.	Broadcaster keeps odd bits of what?
3.	Sound clue but the surface doesn't grip.

11. Broken bread representing Christ!

1.	Brilliant!
2.	Sound clue, nice idea, though bordering on profane in the context. The link 'representing' works well. Better without the explanation mark.
3.	Nicely done. The exclamation mark is not really needed to make this work
4.	Good surface reading

12. Buried in frenzied scrum, ball's left completely in shreds

1.	Wordplay seems rather awkward especially with the link word 'in'.
2.	Not a bad clue but a most unlikely scenario (in my rugby experience)

13. Cold rum with a touch of brandy and Southern Comfort may be served in these

1.	A nice idea for linking wordplay and definition, but 'S' = South not Southern
2.	Delicious, the use of capitals adding to the ruse, originality in the def.
3.	1 point. Nicely disguised definition. "Touches" perhaps better.

14. Compress nearly about million boron bits (6)

1.	Surface seems nonsensical.
2.	not a very convincing surface
3.	"nearly" or "about" on their own would make sense, but not both.
4.	Peculiar surface reading
5.	Clumsy wording and unlikely scenario.

15. Conservative king and posh Frenchman attending British head of state—they're extremely unpleasant people!

1.	'Crumbs' are worthless, despicable people, not necessarily unpleasant though (see 16).
2.	Too long-winded.
3.	'attending' superfluous (except for the surface); definition too obviously apart.
4.	I guess there's nothing wrong with it but in my opinion turning every letter into an abbreviation is a bit tedious

16. Conservatives, strange gutless bastards, they are worthless.

1.	That's going a bit far, even for a leftie liberal like myself.
2.	Too toxic (and I'm probably redder than you).
3.	Catches the attention!
4.	A well constructed clue that made me smile

17. Consume split bread rolls making these on side plate

1.	Magnificent. A gem. Congratulations and 5 points to you.
2.	To be an &lit, the whole clue would need to be the definition. Here it's just the word "these".
3.	Too many letters that aren't in the defined word (the more, the less clever); 'split' superfluous (def)

18. Credit sum is keeping baron broke (little remains) (6)

1.	The anagrind should really be adjacent to the anagram fodder.
2.	'is keeping' is superfluous for the anagram

19. Crikey! B——— scrum collapsed!

1.	simple, and works well
2.	Def. is merely a superfluous addition to the wordplay – too easy.

20. Crikey! Caught with intoxicating drink, bishop on Sabbath!

1.	A good effort, though the surface reading seems a little strained perhaps.
2.	Def. is merely a superfluous addition to the wordplay – too easy.
3.	ok but not exactly flowing English
4.	I would have voted this higher had it been … caught bishop imbibing intoxicating …

21. Cunning U-boat initially blew the Viceroy of India into little pieces.

1.	Wordplay is far too tortuous to be fair to the solver.
2.	I quite like this, but the 'initially' stands out in the surface reading.
3.	From Viceroy of India to RMS is asking a lot of the solver.
4.	Rather obscure reference and I think most solvers would consider U-boat as one word
5.	U-boat is one word so 'initially' = U, not u,b
6.	convoluted and doesn't work
7.	I'm not sure a hyphenated word can have two initials. Or that 'blew' indicates both parts be anagrammed

22. Disgusting people. Not by half. Cruddy rioters. We have no love for them.

1.	Definition seems imprecise, wordplay a bit clumsy and surface rather disjointed.
2.	I think 'rioters' is a 'mob' rather than 'mobs'
3.	This would read much better if recast somehow as a single sentence.
4.	Being in a separate phrase (full-stopped), 'not by half' doesn't relate to 'cruddy'.
5.	I'm not keen on the way the punctuation interrupts the wordplay, sorry

23. Dismay expressed about bishops having drink

1.	'bishops' = bb, not bs.
2.	'having' is too loose to be fair to the solver – 'holding' better.

24. Eg wafer remnants substantive church served up as host for mass

1.	sb. and URC are rather obscure.
2.	Surface meaning seems an unlikely story.

25. Expresses surprise, but backs the start of standard British measures undergoing renewed callibration.

1.	Surface rather disjointed and requires 'This' at the start.
2.	that's 'starts of', not 'start of'; 'but' superfluous to the clue
3.	I would prefer 'starts of' to indicate more than one initial letter. 'Expresses surprise' seems inaccurate as a definition to me

26. Fancy almost nothing to eat

1.	The definition is not very close to the meaning
2.	1 point. Nice try, although I feel "fancy!" doesn't quite express as much dismay as "crumbs!".
3.	Surface reading seems awkward.
4.	Sound, but the surface doesn't ring my bells

27. Freeze credit for new head of school leaving students expressing dismay

1.	'leaving students' is redundant other than to facilitate the surface reading.
2.	I don't see why "leaving students" is included, and "expressing dismay" is wrong part of speech.
3.	Perhaps 'producing student's dismayed expression' would be better ? (see 28)
4.	unsound: needs e.g. freeze with credit for new; and what's 'leaving' doing?
5.	'leaving students'?
6.	I like the substitution but 'leaving students' is superfluous and the definition seems inaccurate

28. Freezes credit for northern wretches

1.	4 points. Admirably brief.
2.	needs a qualifier e.g. 'with' after 'freezes'; surface not great.

29. Gated? Strong drink knocked back with a snort of snow. Crikey!

1.	Gated = confined to barracks = CB is a leap too far for solvers.
2.	'gated' is too indirect to indicate CB to be fair to the solver, as is 'knocked back' for swallowed
3.	Wordplay seems too obscure to be fair to the solver.
4.	I don't get how 'snort' can indicate initial letter or how 'knocked back' indicates 'is contained'

30. Gracious spirit found in youngsters spurned by university

1.	Sound enough; surface OK without being brilliant, but oi'll give it 1.
2.	Should be 'youngsters spurning university' for the wordplay to work.

31. Gracious toast gives rise to them

1.	excellent.
2.	Two meanings neatly combined
3.	needs 'e.g.' toast (other things do too); surface rather meaningless
4.	I like 'gracious toast', but the rest of the surface reading doesn't quite work.
5.	Excellent surface reading with clever misdirection

32. Heavens above – what great tits love!

1.	Nicely different surface / wordplay meaning. My only slight qualm is in wondering what great tits really think of crumbs.
2.	Presumably 'Heavens above' is the def, but how does 'paris major' fit in?
3.	Haha. This one made me laugh. Nice work.
4.	Pecking milk bottle tops, I always thought. Not convinced despite the rudery.
5.	nice try (holiday postcard humour); but so do blackbirds, blue-tits etc so needs an 'e.g.' or such like
6.	This made me laugh aloud, but I suspect it will cause offence to some

33. How rum BSc wrongly explains the composition of bread?

1.	def. is iffy (composition of bread?), surface meaning is strange
2.	Definition seems imprecise.

34. I go to pieces when remains are lost from smashing curb (6)

1.	'ash' is singular, so not 'are' lost; what's the 'I go to' in the def.?
2.	No clear anagram indicator; how does 'when' = 'gin' ? Surface seems nonsensical.

35. In other words, the lamb is more palatable in morsels of dry bread

1.	Too indirect for me to have solved it; and 'lamb' would need the capital anyway
2.	'the lamb' is not a euphemism for 'crumbs' – there is too big a jump here
3.	'lamb' should be capitalised, euphemism not really clear enough.

36. Jockey clubrooms with no separate toilet – blimey!

1.	Wordplay for deletion of LOO, appears to be wrong.
2.	Merely adding the (rather superfluous ) def. is just too easy to gain a mark.
3.	I'm undecided on how I feel about loo being indicated indirectly. Otherwise a neat clue

37. Minced oath?

1.	You've lost me with the wordplay here.
2.	Definition only with no proper wordplay.

38. More than one scumbag right for a good thrashing

1.	"Scumbag" is part of the definition and of the wordplay – that doesn't work for me.
2.	You've lost me – it works as a def, but what's 'more than one' doing in the wordplay?
3.	'scumbag' does double duty in wordplay and definition – cf Scumbags right for a good square thrashing ?
4.	#I like the substitution but am not keen on 'scumbag' doing double duty here for def & wordplay

39. My cheerleader uniform bulges at the sides

1.	4 points. Nice touch of humour.
2.	Sound clue, best chuckle of the comp. Seamless def (a note for all the 'crikey!s)
3.	Careful !
4.	Nice bit of humour

40. My spirit is crushed by cold, heartless bullies

1.	4 points. Very inventive.
2.	Don't like 'crushed' for 'contained'.
3.	Very neat, perhaps it doesn't need the comma ?
4.	Excellent, I can imagine 'my' giving a penny drop moment here

41. Odd caress around bum rendered expression of surprise

1.	"Rendered" is an odd word to use in this context, and by itself it does not indicate an anagram.
2.	…that's 'odds of caress'
3.	Amusing surface but 'odd caress' is not the same as 'odd letters in caress'.

43. Rock music, Bread; when rough idea's forgotton, what's left?

1.	Surface makes little sense (nb it's forgotten.)
2.	I just don't get the & lit. meaning (def.)
3.	Did they form 'The Crumbs' after they broke up ? (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Crumbs)
4.	I think this might have been good with a little more work, but there isn't really a definition

44. Rolls broken down? Oh Dear! (6)

1.	Nice idea, although rolls broken down would just be bits of rolls, not necessarily crumbs.
2.	As with .several clues here, it's just too easy to add on this def.

45. Rolls pranged? Crikey!

1.	Unlike 44 this doesn't define crumbs very well
2.	Another add-on def. – too easy for merit
3.	First definition too loose even with the '?' (see 44)

46. Scraps empty vehicle and damaged Minehead bus.

1.	I'm of the camp that don't see how Minehead can be M.; also need to specify 'car' (could be any, eg lorry)
2.	Minehead might be accepted in tabloids but I'm afraid I'm not keen
3.	'Minehead' is not 'head of Mine'.

47. Scraps silly curbs on marijuana seed (6)

1.	..yes, but you the 'of'; a pity
2.	1 point. No problem with "seed" but not sure "on" quite works.
3.	I think seed is a bit iffy, and would have preferred 'marijuana's seed' for the wordplay
4.	'marijuana seed' for M is stretching it.

48. slices of bread in disintegration.

1.	Nothing cryptic about this, and certainly not an &lit if that is what is meant.
2.	How would the solver KNOW the answer was correct?
3.	I'm sorry if I've missed something clever, but I can't see any wordplay
4.	Where is the wordplay ?

49. Small pieces of cakes and biscuits sometimes have liquor added in (6)

1.	I can't quite work out where the def. is in this clue.
2.	The definition is not clearly distinguishable from the entirety of the wordplay.

50. Starts cooking bread sauce, adding odd ingredient to plenty of these?

1.	Needs (starts) OF, TO or similar
2.	A good attempt at a semi & lit. clue, but the container is a little vague.

51. Starts to cross river unaware many boats sink ; utter dismay

1.	don't think crumbs means 'utter dismay' – it's an expression of utter disamy
2.	Nice idea but def. is a too easy add-on for merit.
3.	The initial letter are indicated properly (unlike several clues) but 'utter dismay' isn't quite right as a definition
4.	A nice acrostic but the surface is rather disjointed.

52. Stroke limits men starting in Civil Service to a pittance

1.	"to a" is otiose in the cryptic reading.
2.	I don't like 'men starting' = men: men's start(ing)
3.	Definition seems inaccurate.

53. Tatty clubrooms lacking loo? That's terrible!

1.	Nice wordplay but the def. is a too-easy add-on.

54. US Broadcaster stashing odd bits of food

1.	Sound, but the surface isn't great.
2.	Nothing wrong with the wordplay but the surface isn't very exciting
3.	Sound wordplay and definition, but what does the surface mean ? (see10)

55. Well I never, confined to barracks having imbibed intoxicating liquor on Sabbath

1.	CB = confined to barracks again (see also 29) does not convince
2.	Yet another clue wrigadeith a too easy add-on def.

56. What's left of cake? Odd bits to be emptied out

1.	where's the definition?
2.	Quite a nice & lit.
3.	The best this month I think. A fine & Lit.
4.	A good attempt at the & lit.

57. What's strange when nothing's shed from loaves? Really!

1.	clue does not suggest that 'rum' has to be placed in 'cbs'
2.	Don't see that the replacement is indicated; another of the add-on def. brigade.
3.	Definition seems imprecise and wordplay doesn't quite work.

58. Worthless guys celebrating BSc with rum…

1.	Is 'celebrating' supposed to be an anagrind?
2.	no anagram indicator
3.	Is 'celebrating' an anagram indicator? If they've passed, why are they worthless?
4.	'celebrating' isn't really an anagram indicator.

59. Yikes Harry! Has no sub-charms worked?

1.	What does 'Harry' have to do with it? If an anagrind, why bother with 'worked'? Surface doesn't work either.
2.	What's Harry go to do with it? What's a sub-charm? Shouldn't it be have, not has?
3.	'has no' does not say remove 'has'
4.	Shouldn't that be 'no has'?
5.	I'm afraid I'm baffled by the surface reading. The indication to subtract HAS is not clear
6.	The ordering of the compound anagram is wrong, and the exclamation mark interferes with the first anagram indicator. 'Has' should be 'have'.