CCCWC May competition voters’ comments

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A clue to ROSBIF.
113 comments were received for this competition (from 14 competitors, 1 other)
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Comments on the competition
1.
I have marked some clues down as I am not sure about some of the anagrinds and can't find them in any list – I wish that I was better qualified to judge. Maybe it is time to accept the list in Chambers as definitive – we do for most things!
2.
It seems to me that there are three essential aspects to the meaning of ROSBIF: it is a CONTEMPTUOUS term applied by FRENCH people to BRITISH people. On that basis, and rejecting clues that struck me as technically unsound, I found only four clues that I could honestly vote for (7, 28, 41, 53), plus some merits.
3.
A lot of very similar & lit. ideas made it difficult to choose an outright winner, but 19just edges it with an interesting definition. My other points are thinly spread this time.
4.
There appear to be a fair amount of clues where the definition of ROSBIF isn't quite what Chambers defines it as – specifically clues that suggest British/English rather than Briton/English(wo)man, or those that suggest it's a French culinary term.
5.
Sorry to say, a difficult bunch of clues to find enough good ones to award 15 points, mainly because of the use of, e.g., foreign words for INDIRECT anagrams such as SI for IF, and BOIS for wood. And the “loss” of 6 similar/identical clues using BRITISH to stand for B in a fodder string, also for an INDIRECT ANAGRAM, such as FOR+BRITISH+IS requiring the replacement of BRITISH with the abbreviation B, before anagramming! I believe this is not, and never was, a correct anagram, which should include only en clair fodder. If one of these wins enough votes for 1st place, I will be extremely disappointed! I believe the only legitimate way to do something like this is to, say, anagram IS FOR first, and then ADD B for British as a contained charade piece. MANY other definitions were basically not truly definitions of “French term for British”. Just a TERM or TITLE just isn’t enough IMHO! “derogatory term for Brit”, say, would be OK, just down a peg from the full title/French description.

Comments on the clues

1. A sob and a fir will expose you to a flighty, light-headed person!

1.	Difficult to solve this one as the definition doesn't immediately leap out at the solver
2.	No clear anagram indicator, and not sure where this definition has come from. Surface reading is pretty meaningless too.
3.	Don't like the two "a"s and I don't understand the definition at all. The surface is also a tad forced.
4.	The definition is inadequate, and the indefinite articles in the wordplay should not have been there.

2. Abuse, if French, for Brit.

1.	Brave try, but the comma between 'Abuse' and 'if' is undesirable in the case of an imperative anagrind; 'Ragging…'?
2.	Clever, though it seems to me that using B for Brit is stretching things
3.	Indirect anagram but worth points as 'if French' could really only be 'SI' and it works well.
4.	'Brit' cannot be abbreviated to B, only British or Britain can
5.	This is an example of an indirect anagram (if French = SI), which solvers tend not to like.
6.	… but not B as BRIT!
7.	Not keen on the indirect anagram.

3. All over in France, one that's British-like (6)

1.	This is an & Lit, but I was not keen on 'British-like' = SO.
2.	Nice idea, I'm struggling to accept 'British-like' = 'B SO' and the superfluous 'that's'

4. An Englishman abroad – cut flower then lie back. (6)

1.	Not much of a surface reading here
2.	The wordplay works but the surface doesn't really make sense.
3.	It has to be an Englishman in FRANCE, and there must be some indication that the reference is contemptuous.

6. Another term for British hack Boris, leader of fogies! (6)

1.	There must be some indication that it is a contemptuous term used by French people.
2.	This is not an &lit – definition and s.i. are not coterminous; indeed they do not even overlap.

7. Bigoted Frogs – God! – get this Englishman furious!

1.	Doesn't the anagrind (furious) need to be adjacent to the anagrist (God get rosbif)?
2.	This was one of the very few technically correct clues where all three crucial aspects of the definition (contemptuous, French, British) wer
3.	Definition seems to be between the anagram and its indicator.

8. Boris, batty fellow, a caricature Englishman

1.	The best of the Borises in my opinion.
2.	No mention of the crucial French aspect.
3.	The best Boris clue for me.
4.	Much the best of the Borises, but the definition would have been made more accurate by the addition of "abroad".

9. Briton on the Côte d'Azur? Guy shunning exercise lies back

1.	Liked this a lot; 'guy' and 'lies' both delightfully misleading.
2.	No mention of the crucial contemptuous aspect.
3.	Lovely picture of Briton enjoying the sun for a change. I liked this clue very much.

10. Description of Brits cooking T-bone.

1.	T-bone doesn't really work for me

11. Dish of ribs giving Brit a bad name

1.	'Brit a bad name' doesn't seem to work as a definition. I might have awarded points if it had been expressed as 'bad name for Brit'
2.	No mention of the crucial French element.

12. Doctor Bors provided classification of the English emanating from frogs

1.	The surface seems rather forced (though I apologise if Dr Bors is an actual person/character).
2.	I don't know who Doctor Bors is, but it needs to be Frogs when referring to the French.

13. Eg, yelling "A bas, —!", it is way out of order – a base Froggy's libel, init?

1.	Quite a complex composite anagram that does not read very smoothly, and the definition is not clear
2.	Nice work on the comparative anagram but the surface is clunky.
3.	Much too long a composite anagram.
4.	Huh?
5.	To convoluted.

14. Elementary recipe of stereotypical Brit incites French – or Froggy – riposte?

1.	Initial letter indication seems a bit iffy to me. Not & lit. if definition is separate to wordplay!
2.	It should have been "French or Froggy riposte?".

15. Endless stamina makes a comeback, involving outsize Brit in France

1.	No real indication of the essential 'contemptuous'.

16. English entertained by this foreign foe's rib?

1.	Good attempt at an &lit., though 'rib' is a little strained.
2.	No indication of the French connection.
3.	This is a great surface, but the cryptic instruction is a bit too strained

17. "F——— Boris!" snarled a Brit to Sarko maybe contemptuously.

1.	Quite liked the "F-Boris!", but trying to remember who Sarko was…
2.	Amusing!
3.	I did not like Boris, which is not essentially a British name.

18. Father returned, carrying chopped French wood for the Englishman (6)

1.	I'm not keen on the indirect anagram here. 'Englishman' seems inadequate as a definition to me
2.	Indirect anagram, and the definition lacks detail.
3.	Nice idea, but not a fan of the indirect anagram
4.	Too much of a leap to the anagram fodder.

19. Fellow coming in for tea at top bistro abroad?

1.	Nice idea for wordplay, the whole as a definition seems a little weak in my opinion though
2.	Nicely misleading cryptic reading and good definition

20. Forbids criminal to dump dead Englishman in France? (6)

1.	No indication that the term is contemptuous.

21. French call US king with huge FBI mix-up

1.	I like the wordplay, can't convince myself to accept 'French call US' as a definition though

22. French entree: tough, fibrous, not of the best quality

1.	A fine surface reading
2.	Sorry but definition doesn't seem right to me, 'tough' dubious as an anagrind and instruction to subtract U not quite right
3.	Can't see the definition here.

23. French name for British is distasteful

1.	Nicely succinct
2.	I am not all that happy with 'distasteful' as an anagram indicator, and I am not all that clear how the clue works.
3.	not too happy with distasteful anagrind

24. French name for Englishman's order of ribs

1.	No indication that the term is contemptuous.
2.	Well-constructed clue, though would definitely appear in a Monday rather than a Friday puzzle.

25. French potentate has sent back rubbish bit of foreign meat

1.	The definition is wrong, and I'm not sure about the wordplay.

26. French term for English Rose: detailed key provided

1.	No indication that the term is contemptuous.
2.	Detailed is not de-tailed for me

27. Frog's equivalent term for British is fitting

1.	fitting anagrind?

28. Frog's innards shouldn't be ingested for starters – that's an insult to the English.

1.	Very good clue well constructed

29. Frogs! No good sloppy assuming swing both ways – that's the French for me!

1.	Some nice ideas but the surface does not read very smoothly
2.	Solving this would rely on me knowing the setter's nationality.

30. Frogs' term for British, I suspect

1.	This is the best clue for me though I'd have thought that the 'I suspect' ruins its '&lit' claim (but bear in mind that I am a novice).
2.	No indication that the term is contemptuous.
3.	Can't see where the 's' is in the anagram fodder

31. Head of Department away, forbids switching French for English

1.	No indication that the term is contemptuous.
2.	My favourite. Like the misleading context
3.	Nicely disguised clue

32. In bistro it's no term for Brit that's tried starter of frog

1.	No indication that the term is contemptuous.

33. In France, a British man spins lies after Euro drops 50%

1.	No indication that the term is contemptuous.

34. In France, with a bénédictine, one is a stereotypical Englishman

1.	No indication that the term is contemptuous, and you seem to need another 'in France'.

35. Initially representing our stalwart Britisher in France.

1.	No indication that the term is contemptuous — indeed, 'stalwart' suggests the opposite.

36. Is old boy rioting in revolutionary France a Brit?

1.	I'm personally not keen on indirect anagrams like this, would find it more acceptable if O & B appeared consecutively in the answer
2.	No real indication that the term is contemptuous.

37. Jibe from the neighbours, if Bros is played?

1.	Unique idea and quite humerous
2.	Very good, in particular by avoiding English/British in the definition!

38. Made up fib or singular term in France for an English person (6)

1.	No indication that the term is contemptuous.

39. Men returning with tales about Englishman abroad

1.	No indication that the term is contemptuous, or used by French people.
2.	Nicely deceptive definition

41. Nice monicker for Brit, perhaps? Yes and No!

1.	I like the clever use of 'Nice' but there is no real wordplay.

42. Nice term for British is soppy

1.	'For British' doing double duty in definition & anagram fodder makes the attempt to mislead a little unfair in my opinion
2.	No indication that the term is contemptuous.

44. Out of ribs? Typical English kitchen!

1.	Not sure that I see the definition part here

45. Primarily rudeness of speech blathered in France (6)

1.	No indication that it relates to British people.

46. Ragged Brit doesn't have time for endless small talk from badmouthing Frenchman!

1.	Too complex for such a short word.

48. Ridicule of sorry Brits in French Premiers

1.	Seems to suggest a plural.

49. Right to sob uncontrollably if one's called overseas?

1.	No reference to French/British.
2.	Wordplay fine but the definition seems a little weak to me

51. Slur for British is ———

1.	No reference to the French.
2.	One of my favourites, a nice succinct & lit.

52. Term for Britisher in France scoffing outsize chump of lamb!

1.	I think 'chump' means top, alas.
2.	Not &lit, I my opinion, as the definition is perhaps too precise.

53. Term of derision coming from the flipping French squashing one British native

1.	It would have been better without the 'the'.

54. This tag could make confounded Frogs bait Brit

1.	Hmmm, I was not sure about this. So I gave it a Merit.

55. To whom Frog's bile is directed after having leg pulled?

1.	There's a problem since L E G are three detached letters and cannot be removed as a single unit
2.	I'd have preferred an indication that the 'pulled' letters are out of order
3.	Good spot with that anagram.
4.	Perfect compound and nice surface

56. Unfortunate having lost British parents? Au contraire, peut-être.

1.	I think I need an explanation of the explanation!

57. Was Boris confused with fellow Englishman?

1.	Good idea but definition doesn't indicate the Frenchness